Comments on: Multitask-Masters: Brain Surgeon Stat! http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/ For people who dare to Phone Different. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:28:50 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Rene Ritchie http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5717 Rene Ritchie Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:20:11 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5717 <p>For now, if you want tinker-ware you need WinMob just like if you want a tictac keyboard you need a Treo/WinMob/BB.</p> <p>(reminds me of old tech support joke about Mac being yes/no and PC being maybe but...)</p> For now, if you want tinker-ware you need WinMob just like if you want a tictac keyboard you need a Treo/WinMob/BB.

(reminds me of old tech support joke about Mac being yes/no and PC being maybe but…)

]]> By: surur http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5716 surur Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:24:13 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5716 <table width=100% bgcolor=lightgray><tr><td bgcolor=white>"Do you still beat your wife?" Nice. I agree with Hockenberry that unrestricted access to the radios by any developer will lead to power problems (because it becomes unmanaged, much as happens with WinMob today). I'd also add my own security concerns to that as well.</td></tr></table> <p>Its NOT unmanaged. The user should be able to measure the utility of the 3rd party app vs the powerdrain it causes. Its a pity Apple consider most of its users dunces.</p> <table width=100% bgcolor=lightgray><tr><td bgcolor=white>(Remind me, if I don't remember, how multiple network radio access was managed on WinMob 1.0 and what the success rate was with early SDK developments?)</td></tr></table> <p>When WM 1.0 came out, PDA's did not have radios at all.</p> <p><img src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71V0RVWFRXL._SS500_.gif" border="0"></p> <p>Look, no keyboard and a grid of icons!! Its clearly a rip off of the iPhone!!!</p> <p>Surur</p> “Do you still beat your wife?” Nice. I agree with Hockenberry that unrestricted access to the radios by any developer will lead to power problems (because it becomes unmanaged, much as happens with WinMob today). I’d also add my own security concerns to that as well.

Its NOT unmanaged. The user should be able to measure the utility of the 3rd party app vs the powerdrain it causes. Its a pity Apple consider most of its users dunces.

(Remind me, if I don’t remember, how multiple network radio access was managed on WinMob 1.0 and what the success rate was with early SDK developments?)

When WM 1.0 came out, PDA’s did not have radios at all.

Look, no keyboard and a grid of icons!! Its clearly a rip off of the iPhone!!!

Surur

]]> By: Rene Ritchie http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5715 Rene Ritchie Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:04:44 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5715 <p>"Do you still beat your wife?" Nice.</p> <p>I agree with Hockenberry that unrestricted access to the radios by any developer will lead to power problems (because it becomes unmanaged, much as happens with WinMob today). I'd also add my own security concerns to that as well.</p> <p>What developers want and what they need are not always the same thing.</p> <p>(Remind me, if I don't remember, how multiple network radio access was managed on WinMob 1.0 and what the success rate was with early SDK developments?)</p> “Do you still beat your wife?” Nice.

I agree with Hockenberry that unrestricted access to the radios by any developer will lead to power problems (because it becomes unmanaged, much as happens with WinMob today). I’d also add my own security concerns to that as well.

What developers want and what they need are not always the same thing.

(Remind me, if I don’t remember, how multiple network radio access was managed on WinMob 1.0 and what the success rate was with early SDK developments?)

]]> By: surur http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5714 surur Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:37:05 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5714 <table width=100% bgcolor=lightgray><tr><td bgcolor=white>Not really following you. At most you could say "3rd party hacks on jailbroken iPhones that accessed the network every 5min. drained the battery in 4hrs." Again, real world, the iPhone has thus far trumped battery life on both my old WinMob and Palm devices, and done so with more functionality (WiFi) and heftier multimedia specs (including a far bigger screen). No comparing Apples to prunes now... :)</td></tr></table> <p>So, do you accept this guys argument or not. </p> <p>Either Hockenberry does not know what he is talking about, and cant program his way out of a paper bag, and his experience with his twitter client is not indicative of the effect of background network access, at which point one questions why you posted the article.</p> <p>Or he is talking sense, and on the iPhone network access really drains the battery, and the iPhone has poor power management.</p> <p>Which is it then?</p> <p>Surur</p> Not really following you. At most you could say “3rd party hacks on jailbroken iPhones that accessed the network every 5min. drained the battery in 4hrs.” Again, real world, the iPhone has thus far trumped battery life on both my old WinMob and Palm devices, and done so with more functionality (WiFi) and heftier multimedia specs (including a far bigger screen). No comparing Apples to prunes now… :)

So, do you accept this guys argument or not.

Either Hockenberry does not know what he is talking about, and cant program his way out of a paper bag, and his experience with his twitter client is not indicative of the effect of background network access, at which point one questions why you posted the article.

Or he is talking sense, and on the iPhone network access really drains the battery, and the iPhone has poor power management.

Which is it then?

Surur

]]> By: Rene Ritchie http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5713 Rene Ritchie Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:27:09 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5713 <p>Not really following you. At most you could say "3rd party hacks on jailbroken iPhones that accessed the network every 5min. drained the battery in 4hrs."</p> <p>Again, real world, the iPhone has thus far trumped battery life on both my old WinMob and Palm devices, and done so with more functionality (WiFi) and heftier multimedia specs (including a far bigger screen).</p> <p>No comparing Apples to prunes now... :)</p> Not really following you. At most you could say “3rd party hacks on jailbroken iPhones that accessed the network every 5min. drained the battery in 4hrs.”

Again, real world, the iPhone has thus far trumped battery life on both my old WinMob and Palm devices, and done so with more functionality (WiFi) and heftier multimedia specs (including a far bigger screen).

No comparing Apples to prunes now… :)

]]> By: surur http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5712 surur Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:19:04 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5712 <table width=100% bgcolor=lightgray><tr><td bgcolor=white>You're giving a single-tasking example, email. (And as a matter of fact, when I switched my Treo to ActiveSync exchange push, the battery drained *significantly* faster all by itself. Adding in BlueTooth killed it before end-of-business). It's not email every 15 min. It's email (ME + GM + YM + ?) + IM (AIM + WM + GT + ?) + XML (Twitter + Jaiku + Facebook + LinkedIn + ?) + next big wannabes (corelocation dating, social wine tasting, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) Turn everything on continuously on any device (much less WinMob!) and you don't have any management to do of the power. You just have constant drain. So far Apple seems to be the only OS maker who remembers it's a mobile *phone*</td></tr></table> <p>Thats not the claim. The claim is that on the iPhone, simply activating the network every 5 minutes drains the battery in 4 hours. </p> <p>I am saying no WM phone is as bad as that, and that therefore WM power management is better than the touted "advanced" power management of the iPhone.</p> <p>Surur</p> You’re giving a single-tasking example, email. (And as a matter of fact, when I switched my Treo to ActiveSync exchange push, the battery drained *significantly* faster all by itself. Adding in BlueTooth killed it before end-of-business). It’s not email every 15 min. It’s email (ME + GM + YM + ?) + IM (AIM + WM + GT + ?) + XML (Twitter + Jaiku + Facebook + LinkedIn + ?) + next big wannabes (corelocation dating, social wine tasting, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) Turn everything on continuously on any device (much less WinMob!) and you don’t have any management to do of the power. You just have constant drain. So far Apple seems to be the only OS maker who remembers it’s a mobile *phone*

Thats not the claim. The claim is that on the iPhone, simply activating the network every 5 minutes drains the battery in 4 hours.

I am saying no WM phone is as bad as that, and that therefore WM power management is better than the touted “advanced” power management of the iPhone.

Surur

]]> By: Rene Ritchie http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5711 Rene Ritchie Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:50:12 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5711 <p>You're giving a single-tasking example, email. (And as a matter of fact, when I switched my Treo to ActiveSync exchange push, the battery drained <em>significantly</em> faster all by itself. Adding in BlueTooth killed it before end-of-business).</p> <p>It's not email every 15 min. It's email (ME + GM + YM + ?) + IM (AIM + WM + GT + ?) + XML (Twitter + Jaiku + Facebook + LinkedIn + ?) + next big wannabes (corelocation dating, social wine tasting, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.)</p> <p>Turn everything on continuously on any device (much less WinMob!) and you don't have any management to do of the power. You just have constant drain.</p> <p>So far Apple seems to be the only OS maker who remembers it's a mobile <em>phone</em></p> You’re giving a single-tasking example, email. (And as a matter of fact, when I switched my Treo to ActiveSync exchange push, the battery drained significantly faster all by itself. Adding in BlueTooth killed it before end-of-business).

It’s not email every 15 min. It’s email (ME + GM + YM + ?) + IM (AIM + WM + GT + ?) + XML (Twitter + Jaiku + Facebook + LinkedIn + ?) + next big wannabes (corelocation dating, social wine tasting, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.)

Turn everything on continuously on any device (much less WinMob!) and you don’t have any management to do of the power. You just have constant drain.

So far Apple seems to be the only OS maker who remembers it’s a mobile phone

]]> By: surur http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5710 surur Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:06:45 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5710 <table width=100% bgcolor=lightgray><tr><td bgcolor=white>Dunno. My experience with WinMob involved really poor battery life and an almost OCD-like paranoia about killing apps because the system always seemed so sluggish. And I think Hockenberry is referring to multitasking in the sense of background services hitting the radios. So far I'm appreciating Apple's conservative approach on that score.</td></tr></table> <p>Are you seriously telling me your WM phone would die in 4 hours if you set it to poll e-mail every 5 minute?</p> <p>Apple is very good with illusions. They gave the illusion of having good power management, but when exposed the harsh reality it proves rather the poorer. Doesn't the e-mail client only poll every 15 minutes at the minimum? Now they want developers to give the illusion of multi-tasking when thats far from the case.</p> <p>Surur</p> Dunno. My experience with WinMob involved really poor battery life and an almost OCD-like paranoia about killing apps because the system always seemed so sluggish. And I think Hockenberry is referring to multitasking in the sense of background services hitting the radios. So far I’m appreciating Apple’s conservative approach on that score.

Are you seriously telling me your WM phone would die in 4 hours if you set it to poll e-mail every 5 minute?

Apple is very good with illusions. They gave the illusion of having good power management, but when exposed the harsh reality it proves rather the poorer. Doesn’t the e-mail client only poll every 15 minutes at the minimum? Now they want developers to give the illusion of multi-tasking when thats far from the case.

Surur

]]> By: AnteL0pe http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5709 AnteL0pe Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:51:13 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5709 <p>Their needs to be some balance between the failed WinMo implementation of just leaving everything open unless explicitly closed and the limiting Palm method of only allowing a single app at a time. If the solution is to collect background internet data requests into a shared window, thats fine as long as that has a beneficial impact and provides a reasonable user experience. If background apps need to "sleep" when the phone is active or whenever the stock apps (or any app for that matter) need more processing power then so be it. I'm sure the developers will be able to work within those kind of limits.</p> Their needs to be some balance between the failed WinMo implementation of just leaving everything open unless explicitly closed and the limiting Palm method of only allowing a single app at a time. If the solution is to collect background internet data requests into a shared window, thats fine as long as that has a beneficial impact and provides a reasonable user experience. If background apps need to “sleep” when the phone is active or whenever the stock apps (or any app for that matter) need more processing power then so be it. I’m sure the developers will be able to work within those kind of limits.

]]> By: Bri Guy http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/comment-page-1/#comment-5708 Bri Guy Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:15:54 +0000 http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/#comment-5708 <p>Having been a former long-time Palm/Treo user, multitasking is not a big deal to me. The most important issue, at least for me, is whether or not an interrupted app (i.e., receiving a phone call while in the midst of using an app) will resume seamlessly or if data loss will occur.</p> Having been a former long-time Palm/Treo user, multitasking is not a big deal to me. The most important issue, at least for me, is whether or not an interrupted app (i.e., receiving a phone call while in the midst of using an app) will resume seamlessly or if data loss will occur.

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