Comments on: Could HTML 5 Kill Flash on the iPhone?

By: mark

mark — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:20:45 +0000

@b1a, who wrote:

"...apple doesn’t want to support flash, just like they saw mms as not useful in their iphone."

b1a, where do you get your information? please cite legitimate sources for your claim that apple "saw mms as not useful." actually, never mind -- because you don't have any sources. you're a typical, internet dweeb just shooting off at the mouth, regarding things about which you know absolutely nothing.

it wasn't apple who didn't want mms, it was at&t who didn't want their networks bogged down by the amount of additional data that would have been generated by mms on iphones -- devices which were already data-intensive.

next time, try researching a subject instead of making things up. (and no, i'm not affiliated with apple.)

By: Fletch

Fletch — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:58:31 +0000

I don’t really care about alternatives to flash. I just want to be able to view content. I’m not interested on the geek off over speed and openess. The fact is a large percentage of sites have flash and we can’t view that content because apple has decided to wage a standards war at the expense of the user experience.

By: HereAndNow

HereAndNow — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:36:00 +0000

Someone should publish a performance comparison between say, HTML5 video & Flash/Silverlight/JavaFX video.

If HTML5 video is significantly less processing intensive, it would bode well for it to be the "preferred" solution for smartphones, since less processing translates to more battery life.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:59:08 +0000

The comments about the memory footprint of Flash are spot on. Not only is it not a viable option on the iPhone, it’s barely viable on the Desktop. Flash websites break the functionality web, aren’t searchable and are basically glorified videos. While I don’t think the rise of HTML 5 means the demise of Flash (it has it’s place: game development, RIAs, ridicules splash pages)–I’d be happy to see it go.

By: Wesley

Wesley — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:39:06 +0000

@icebike: I agree with you, and you got my point, I just don’t see how contacting every website administrator and saying that 1 person that uses a cellphone can’t access it’s page. iPhone is the bigger source among mobile devices, but among platforms it’s insignificant and therefore I can easily get a “**** off” from the admin.

I believe HTML5 is a big step, but we need to rethink how websites are made and organize things better, CSS has some very annoying issues for layout creation, HTML is old and doesn’t suit webapps very well (even this new version), and JavaScript is a mess (using functions inside function to create classes?).

I don’t like Flash, but I don’t think it’s going down like this. You can do things with it that you simply can’t under HTML, like obscure the code (in a way no SWF decompiler can read it).

By: b1a

b1a — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:07:21 +0000

This is kind of funny how apple doesn’t want to support flash, just like they saw mms as not useful in their iphone. What will people agree with apple next, the entire web being free and being able to download music, movies, etc… for free (legally of course) just because apple says “open and free is in?”….

By: iphoner

iphoner — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:46:44 +0000

@dman. I'm just reading your previous comment now. Totally understand your POV especially since Flash is your livelihood.

But wouldn't it be nice to build a site and say "this site works in every browser I've ever heard of"? That's the promise of an open, standards-compliant web.

By: dman

dman — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:03:19 +0000

@iphoner

As a developer you might care about standards, but as a developer who has clients I couldn’t care less. What I care about is satisfying my clients. If I go to my clients and say “your website is 100% HTML4 and CSS 2.1 compliant” I’ll get a “what does that mean?” when I tell my client “you have interactive Flash content” they say “great!” If I say “Oh I don’t use Flash because it’s not standard” or “Oh I don’t support IE6 because it doesn’t follow the standards” that’s a lost sale.

By: iphoner

iphoner — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:39:01 +0000

@Joe McG Yes, you are missing the whole point. Like most other well-read web developers, I am a proponent of an open, standards-compliant web. Flash, Silverlight and the likes go against this - creating a closed off, non-degradable, less accessible web.

From this standpoint, the fewer browsers that support Flash the better - regardless of their motives.

By: dman

dman — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:33:04 +0000

I’m speaking as a Flash/ActionScript/Flex/AIR developer. Flash IS here to stay for the long haul. 3 years till Flash is gone? It’ll be 5 years before we even see an HTML5 standard! I’m a web developer, HTML5 is a great idea but it’s not even on my radar. Why? Right now, I have to support IE6, IE7, IE8, Firefox 3, Safari 3, Safari 4, based on my clients. Even if IE9 and Firefox 4 support HTML5 100%, how long will it take before they have close to 100% market saturation? Remember, Flash came out in 1996! Why didn’t we see Flash sites all over the place until about 2005? It took that long to catch on! IE6, 7, and 8 and FF 3 will be around for years to come. It’ll be a good 10 years before HTML5 is mainstream (if it ever happens… see how well XHTML caught on?) Someone got it spot on, “iPhone flash issue is a supernerd pissing match between Apple and Adobe, nothing else.” I 100% agree with that and I agree with that as a supernerd who has gotten into many a pissing match. Many websites use Flash. I don’t want Flash on my iPhone because I love Flash, I want Flash on my iPhone so I don’t get those “you can’t view this website because you don’t have flash” messages — remember when the iPhone first came out and Apple touted, “On Safari, you see the real web — not a stripped-down mobile version” they left out the “unless you’re on one of the thousands of websites that uses Flash, Java, or any other client-side plugin”.